Riet's comments on red and italics

The following is from Riet but there are also two comments on yesterday's post which I'll copy and paste into today's blog too.

Hi Jane, Just something we had a discussion about , not only the frontside backside, but what had to be in a pattern and in the diagram.

Well I think when you write a pattern just like you did it is the best way, everything you had to know is in the notation, when you wouldn't use the frontside/backside no problem just ignore the red colour or the italics. The same if you don't want to tat SR or SCh just ignore it and cut and tie.

A pattern is a good pattern when it gave you everything there is. Honestly I wrote in my workshops until now: For those who want to tat frontside/backside they know where to change the ds. I will from now on use the italics and red tekst even while I know that some of the members off our guild say I dont need all this horns and bells (a Dutch saying for all the extra's in not such a nice way), ok ignore them, others want them and you are not alone in the tatting world.

When you gave a workshio you have the responsibility that every tatter can do your pattern. So Jane thanks for the Italics and the red text my 2 cents

Riet the B-engel

This is the comment from wickedtats.

When I first learnt to tat, my teacher taught me the difference between F and B tatting. It does make a difference especially with the larger patterns like doilies. However most patterns don't differentiate and it gets quite confusing and extremely saddening when there's only 1 row that done wrongly- I thank Ms Eborall for her extra effort in differentiating!

Lastly the one from Tattycats

Jane, I am glad that you posted this. It reminded me that I did not tell you how much your notations helped me with the back-side front-side instructions. It was great! I think this is a perfect way to highlight it and yes, we do need it. In fact, I need to do more of my tatting this way. It looks so nice. Thanks for all that you do.

Barbara wrote during the TIAS.

I really LOVE the notational convention you have invented to distinguish back-side instructions from front-side instructions!! I am one of those older traditional tatters who completely quit tatting for 25+ years and "awoke" suddenly in 2006 to find the tatting world a new and wonderful place replete with split rings, split chains, front-side/back-side tatting and such. I find myself going through patterns and writing "F" or "B" in front of every line because I am now trying to achieve the consistent-front-side look. Your notation allows the pattern-writer to provide this very helpful information without adding to the length of the patterns. Ingenious!!!

I am wondering if anybody has any further suggestions on this type of notation. Are there better or alternative ways to do it? Do we need it, even? All comments gratefully received either in the comments on this blog or as an email to my regular email address.

Further thoughts about notating the SR and SS!

This is a message I had from Riet. As English is not her first language I think she's VERY brave and very articulate in explaining her thoughts below. Thank you, Riet. Also thanks to SueH for her comments in the comments below too.


Jane,
it is the first time, I hear of this problem, but who am I and how much do I hear.
I always saw the shuttle, you use for the second half of the split ring, was just a thing that comes in and goes out, before you close with the working shuttle. There is also not a SS before starting the second half of a split ring. I think you you should try to learn the new ones to look at the working shuttle, woooow what is this difficult to explane in english.
OK try it again the shuttle that is in your right hand is the working shuttle, so ring closed, you go on with that shuttle normally it doesn't need a SS because you just go on, It only needs an SS when something differents than normal happens

Look at the first SS in day 2 , to compleet the flower and close the flower in the way you want, you have to do ss you have to go on with the other shuttle I think this SS can't be difficult than the second after R 17 is again making a new R take the orher shuttle and make a SR. I think this is also clear. Than the next day. After SR 20 it is more difficult, but still normal, when you look with the technique in your head, When you should go on as normal, you should RW and tat the Chain, the chain will go the wrong way , so to go in the other way, you need a SS and that includs that you don't need the RW.

I can inmagin that for starters this is difficult, but when you learn your starters that the shuttel that makes the ring, in other words that closes the R is the working shuttle, the shuttle in your right hand. When they learn and understand this it will no longer be difficult. I , but again who am I, would prefer it to go on in the way we are doing, think about it you also don't say ss in a pattern after the first part off the SR. Again try to let your starters understand what they are doing, it makes them much more understand the way a pattern is written
My, I hope , understandeble 2 cents
greetings
Riet the B-engel

Thoughts about notating the SR and SS!

This message came from Barbara Hevener and has given me food for thought.

I got involved in trying to help someone else with this project (TIAS) at the Palmetto Tatters Guild meeting last Saturday. That person (an experienced tatter) had gotten confused about what shuttle should be in her right hand after completing "SR20: 4 / 4 - 2 - 6 Cl SS". Because of the shuttle-switching that occurs whenever one makes a SR, it occurred to me that it IS somewhat confusing whenever "SS" immediately follows a split ring.

This morning, I looked up several purported definitions of "SS" (including the old first edition of Judith Connors' "Illustrated Dictionary of Tatting"--I don't have the second edition yet), and found that nobody ever really seems to say how "SS" should be interpreted in conjunction with a SR. I'm betting that tatters (and perhaps even pattern writers) might interpret it in different ways. For example, if I started making the SR with Sh1, do I "SS to Sh1" (because Sh2 made the final stitches of the SR)--or do I "SS to Sh2" (because I just pulled the SR closed with Sh1)? So it might be helpful if pattern writers were to specify "SS to Sh __" in such a situation. Another alternative would be to provide a more complete explanation for "SS" within the pattern instructions.

This is a good point and I would appreciate other people's comments. In the past I used to stipulate which shuttle the worker should be using at each stage but have recently dropped this in favour of SS. Having read Barbara's points and being a tatter who assumed that everybody who finished a SR would pull it up with the original working (core) thread this didn't occur to me to be a problem until now!!!

Please email me with your comments and I will add them to this post - if you wish.

Excellent Comments on the TIAS

These comments were sent in by Kate Sharp and I thought they would be useful not only to me but to others too.
Day 1
I haven't encountered joins on the second half of a split ring and although I managed to keep the ring sliding, the picot is twisted so I probably need some extra tuition on how to resolve this.
2nd Part I've done it and it works! I don't think I've done split ring in and out of a flower to travel along in a line, so it was a good experiment! Turning ove the work and reversing the stitch order is also new but I reprogrammed my brain and achieved it. Didn't quite pull the two upside down rings (10 and 11) fully closed. Last two stitches in each ring seem to ping the other way a little, probably because the stitches and ring are a little loose. Good intro to the technique though! Very clear notation and good corresponding diagram.
Day 3 Still struggling with twisted last two stitches of opposite way round ring, and joining to second half of split ring, but I've done it. How much is 1/8 inch?! No guesses as to what it will become!
Day 4 and 5 Forgot to do the 'front side back side' tatting technique for the tiny ring 21 in part 4 but as its so small it doesn't show too much. Tied on a new shuttle as ran out the two yards I'd put on working shuttled to start with. It seems to be a nicely spaced pattern without straining to join up. Got fractionally confused as to which shuttle I was on but found that it all made sense if I just went with it! Still no idea what the motif is!
Days 6 and 7 Still going well and the notation is clear to follow. I find it much easier having instructions and a diagram for reference rather than a diagram bespeckled with numbers. My joins on the second half of a split ring are neater and becoming easier to work, although they still don't always look quite right. The front side/back side tatting is clever and impressive! I am pleased at how stable the piece is. I think I might be tatting a little pig! Its tail went a bit short though. I wondered if the circles bouncing along its back might make it a woolly sheep, but I think its legs look more pig-like. I hope it will be cute! I have found it most intruiging to witness the construction of the design and where uneven split rings end up!
Day 8 Got a bit confused about which shuttle to start with, so had to unpick a giraffe neck I'd made! Forgot front-side-back-side tatting for the second chain of block tatting, but never mind! The block tatting is fine though, not something I'd done before but the instructions were nice and clear. Wound another two yards onto the second shuttle as I'd run out the two yards that were already on there. I reckon it's going to be a hippo now.
Days 9 and 10 I have tatted a hippo! The lock stitch seemed to go fine - so many reversals and different stitch combinations that I haven't tried before! The eye bead went on very well - before when I've tried this it's twisted and not worked very well, so I was pleased about that!
I had expected him to have an open mouth with two little rows of teeth - maybe this could be an adaptation! I also think he looks a bit rhino-shaped so maybe another version could have a horn! I was pleased to see he looked like the picture!

In my experience, the 'main' working shuttle needs about 3 1/2 - 4 yards and the secondary one about 2 1/2 - 3 yards - if I'd put this much thread on at the start I'd have had less ends to finish when I'd completed it so I think a thread estimate would be a useful addition to any similar future project. The process has been fun and I've looked forward to the instalments, which were in very achievable sized chunks. I have learnt a lot about the construction of a tatted animal and I think his feet are really cute! Thanks Jane!